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Post by xurium on Feb 10, 2015 16:50:30 GMT -5
Hey guys, I got a GM-helmet kit some month ago and I think it's time to assemble it. Unfortunately there are many mistakes in the design of that kit and I have to rework some of the parts. There I could need your help, especially with the measurement. Well, let's take a look:  As you can see, I did already some work on the helmet. I installed the face plate and I had to extend it, so it would fit in the right way. Right now, I'm working on the cheeks and the eyes. After that, this opening on the back has to be overworked. I think it's too long and a little bit to high. And I already ordered some ABS, to build that lower part, that begins on the cheeks and goes around the neck. And of course the line on the helmet's edge is missing. First of all the question: Have I forgotten some mistakes. Can you see more? And then it would be really helpful, if someone could give me some help with the measure of that opening on the back. How far is it away from the eye, how big is it? That's it, thank's for reading, best regards from Germany, Xu |
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Post by Tango Fett on Feb 12, 2015 16:16:28 GMT -5
Hello Xurium, and welcome to the 53rd!!
I think it all depends on how accurate you want your build. Is that a Heatshock helmet?. Because it is probably the most accurate helmet kit. After some finishing and painting it is a very approbable helmet if that's your goal. It is a very accurate helmet indeed. But of course you can always improve it. It all depends on how accurate you want to go.
If you want to go extremely accurate, you are right about the opening in the back. It should be a little lower. Just look once and another the reference pics. In the 360 turnaround, despite it's low quality, you may be able to see the approximate height. If I'm not mistaken, the middle of the opening should be around the same height of the forehead bottom, or even a little lower. Regarding it's length, I'm not sure but it doesn't look that long.
The ABS you mention to do the lower part, pay attention that it kinda have two parts: like an inner part, similar to the shape of the helmet, and a kinda rim of about 35-40mm tall that goes around, and is where the cowl is attached. You may want to fit the helmet when working on it since sometimes there is a difference in the CGI marine and a real world person, so some measurements has to be adapted for the real world.
You ask for measurements, but there is actually not a totally accurate GM already. Al builds are custom made/finished, and some are more accurate than others, but there is no 100% accurate GM since it is originally CGI, and we never got hires official pictures, so everybody built their own as better as they could.
My best advice, since it looks that you want to go with high accuracy, is to see all pictures available one and another and once again, and one more time, as well as the movie now that it's 1080, and you will get familiar with the costume and you'll be able to build it accurate.
Good luck and let us now about your progress and all the questions you may have.
And welcome again to the 53rd!!
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Post by xurium on Feb 13, 2015 6:01:36 GMT -5
Hey Tango  Thank you very much for your answer, you helped me a lot  Yeah, your are right, I would like to make it as accurate as possible. It's a helmet kit from armecore, a german props maker. Thank you for your advice for the lower part, I actually don't know yet, how I wanna build that Best regards, Xu |
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Post by Tango Fett on Feb 19, 2015 8:34:57 GMT -5
Great!. I didn't know that helmet. It looks very similar to the Heatshock, which is probably the most accurate helmet to date, so you had a good start!. Good luck and please keep us updated with your advance and count on us for any doubt you may have!.
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Post by xurium on Apr 22, 2015 5:13:31 GMT -5
Hey there  It's getting warm inside the garage, so I can continue my GM build. And so I got some new questions, which you can hopefully help me to answer I did some measurement on the screenshots and so I changed the opening on the back and made it a little shorter. I guess thats more accurate. Comparing the helmet to the screens, something else chatched my eye: -The lower egde of the back of the helmet seems to be parallel to the opening or even curved upwards. On my helmet it's curved downwards... (See the pics) -The "cheek-egde" of the dome seems to be curved a little bit to the back. On my helmet it's kind of straight. Here is the picture:  What do you think? I hope someone can give me some sort of advice Greetings from Germany, Xu |
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Post by xurium on Apr 22, 2015 8:01:18 GMT -5
Oh, I just checked my thread in the BF-Forum and already got some nice answeres there. So it seems like I have to do some work back there. Not sure, how I'll do it, yet. Mhm, I'll update the next days, I guess See you |
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Post by Tango Fett on Apr 22, 2015 9:03:03 GMT -5
Hey there It's getting warm inside the garage, so I can continue my GM build. And so I got some new questions, which you can hopefully help me to answer I did some measurement on the screenshots and so I changed the opening on the back and made it a little shorter. I guess thats more accurate. Comparing the helmet to the screens, something else chatched my eye: -The lower egde of the back of the helmet seems to be parallel to the opening or even curved upwards. On my helmet it's curved downwards... (See the pics) -The "cheek-egde" of the dome seems to be curved a little bit to the back. On my helmet it's kind of straight. Here is the picture: What do you think? I hope someone can give me some sort of advice Greetings from Germany, Xu Hi Xurium, As many others, I'm on both forums too. It may result a little annoying to have two similar forums, but I like this forum a little better because it is the original GM forum and is dedicated only to GMs. Regarding your questions, the first thing I think you should do, is to better accommodate the helmet on that support you are using (bucket on bucket?, hahaha), for comparisons, so level your helmet. In the picture is a little tilted backwards, so for comparisons sake, level it a little more, lift it from the back. By doing this, you will see that the side of the cheeks improves a little, that the forehead will also be leveled and aligned with the back opening (great job with that!). Put this lines (forehead and back opening) horizontal, because now they are inclined backward (please note that I'm just talking about the position on the support you are using in the pictures, not any actual mod on the helmet). After doing this, the comparison will be more accurate, and I believe cheeks will be reasonably OK. But what is more important that you correct, is the bottom of the back. That definitely has to be corrected if you are in pursuit of accuracy. Helmets way inaccurate have been around since the beginning of this character/costume, and you may also get approved even if you leave it as it is now, but if you are looking for accuracy (as I believe you are) you should correct that. It should be not only as horizontal as the forehead and back opening/slot, but even a little inclined upwards (you may try leaving it horizontal and compare and ask us before you cut it upwards). Please let me know if I'm not clear enough (your native language is Deutsche, mine is Español, and we are discussing about something from another galaxy, from another time, and that didn't even exist in that galaxy or time more than in a hard disk of a computer...). Good luck and keep posting your advances!. |
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Post by xurium on Apr 27, 2015 13:43:30 GMT -5
Thanks for your long answer It's strange, in the German Garrison forum they try to convince me, that the bottom of the back is right as it is now. But I compared all screens I have, did some measuring...and now I'm totally sure, it is light curved upwards, like you already said. Why are there still so many helmets in the Garrison wrong? Anyway, I'll cut it down tommorow, wish me luck And I guess, I understand you pretty well Xu |
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Post by Tango Fett on Apr 28, 2015 8:12:48 GMT -5
Thanks for your long answer It's strange, in the German Garrison forum they try to convince me, that the bottom of the back is right as it is now. But I compared all screens I have, did some measuring...and now I'm totally sure, it is light curved upwards, like you already said. Why are there still so many helmets in the Garrison wrong? Anyway, I'll cut it down tommorow, wish me luck And I guess, I understand you pretty well Xu I perfeclty understand what you say Xu. And I like your point of view of revisiting the costume and what you are being said. Because regarding this costume, there are several mistakes and assumptions that have grown like a snowball during the years, so if you want to go as accurate as possible, you should forget about other costumes and do your own research, and specially scrutinize the movie hundreds of times (HD version is a great advance that we didn't have a few years ago). Indeed the helmet is curved upwards in the back. I believe that when you more clearly can see this is when they shoot Ki Adi Mundi, the take from the back of the GMs, you can clearly see that as well as other details like the "rim" in the bottom of the helmet, the correct shape and components of the backpack, the bottom of the chestplate (marine being shot), etc., and many other details that have been overlooked over the years. Good luck with the cut, do it very slowly, or cut a little and finish with sand/file by hand if possible, be patient, and let us now!. |
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Post by xurium on Apr 29, 2015 7:54:12 GMT -5
Hey there Today I had a interesting idea, when I was in university... Why not make a picture of my helmet in a similar angle as the original screenshot and place them over each other (with gimp). So I can influence the "covering power" of the pictures. This is the result. Looks a little bit like a X-ray photograph  I marked the spots, where something does not fit the original. You can clearly see, the forehead, the back of the head an the top, they are too smooth. The original is quite more straightlined, I guess. You also see the problem at the spot, where I want to cut at the moment And you see that spot I mentioned before: The cheeks are not diagonal (not sure, what word to use) enough. So, sure you can say, the angle of both pictures can never be exactly the same and the reference-pic is in a too bad resolution to make this comparison. But I guess, this is the best possiblity I have, I'll work with that. :/ What do you think of this method? |
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Post by Tango Fett on Apr 29, 2015 13:07:31 GMT -5
Hey there Today I had a interesting idea, when I was in university... Why not make a picture of my helmet in a similar angle as the original screenshot and place them over each other (with gimp). So I can influence the "covering power" of the pictures. This is the result. Looks a little bit like a X-ray photograph I marked the spots, where something does not fit the original. You can clearly see, the forehead, the back of the head an the top, they are too smooth. The original is quite more straightlined, I guess. You also see the problem at the spot, where I want to cut at the moment And you see that spot I mentioned before: The cheeks are not diagonal (not sure, what word to use) enough. So, sure you can say, the angle of both pictures can never be exactly the same and the reference-pic is in a too bad resolution to make this comparison. But I guess, this is the best possiblity I have, I'll work with that. :/ What do you think of this method? Well, I did the same when doing my helmets (current version is 3.0...), and I think Heatshock did that too when building his, but since the reference pic is so low resolution, I don't think the results are very reliable. And other aspects that may not be totally precise, is like if your picture was taken with a wide angle lens, or with a tele lens, from close, from a distance, etc, because that also change dimension, shapes and proprotions (think of a picture of a square taken with a wide angle lens from a close distance, it will have all sides rounded instead of straight), so I think that you should focus mainly in the aproximate shapes, like the back and bottom. That is what shoud be corrected the most. Other aspects can be improved, but are way within the variations we are used to see in most GMs. |
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Post by xurium on Apr 29, 2015 14:11:15 GMT -5
Mhm, there is something else... I did the same with front and back of the helmet....take a look, it's horrbile... I already tought, the helmet would be a little bit too wide....but the cheeks are completely wrong... Don't know, how I shall fix this...   |
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Post by Tango Fett on Apr 30, 2015 10:34:21 GMT -5
It may be really hard to get a perfect shape, specially when the reference is so lo quality. There is the "Sith Snapshot", picture 1540 from Official Pix (http://www.officialpix.com/estore/proddetail.asp?prod=SW-1540) that may suit you as another reference. Also, Banzai88 has scanned it in high resolution and posted it in the Blizzard Force forum. The helmet in that picture is in a specific angle, but it may be useful to see how much your helmet is off shape.
But remember that there is not a perfect helmet yet. Helmets have evolved, from the SGB (check how inaccurate it is) to Heatshock, RKD or yours. I think that yours, with the mods we discussed, should be ok. There have been other helmets way more inaccurate that have been approved.
Also remember that if you are taking the picture of yours with a pocket camera, use a little zoom to capture the real shape of the helmet not deformed by any wide angle lens.
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